Category Archives: Drugs – Side Effects

HIV Is Mutating Out Of Existence

RTB: We received this HIV agit-prop emission, caught on the great Pravda radio coming out of Pharmagrad, with story number one arriving courtesy of the great Terry Michael, who always finds the best articles from deep inside the brain hole zone of hiv-ology…

A New Plan To Mutate HIV Out Of Existence [Link]

Koronis Pharmaceuticals, a Seattle-based biotech company, has a potential solution to the HIV epidemic with KP-1461, a new kind of drug that essentially mutates HIV into oblivion. If it works, patients could eventually get off the drug altogether and remain HIV-free.

And Terry Notes that even the brain-dead mainstream sees greed writ large:

But as the tests continue, Koronis may run into problems forming partnerships with major pharmaceutical companies that are happy with the current state of the HIV drug market. “The business model is predicated on the chronic application of drugs that have very high margins,” says Koronis CEO Don Elmer. “What we can say clearly is that there is not a sense of urgency. Collectively [the big pharmaceutical companies] are quite happy to just to let things kind of evolve on their own, and they’re not particularly interested in figuring out how to change the overall standard of care.” Despite this, Koronis has had ongoing interactions with six of the seven largest pharmaceutical companies for the better part of the last decade.

Our response:

AAAAHHHH!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAH!!!

Hold on…..hold on…

okay..

okay..

oh…okay… okay.. uh… oh no… can’t stop it…here it comes again..

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!

Oh, sorry. Sorry… sorry. Hard to… look.

It’s just, HIV is supposed to be ‘deadly and unstoppable,’ because it ‘mutates so often,’ and is so ‘wily,’ ‘fragile,’ and ‘hard to pin down.’

Or, as HIV-ologist, Robin Weiss says:

– Hey, “It’s complicated!” Says the master debater.

We’ve been told and told and told that its ‘mutability’ was what made it dangerous:

But evolution can also occur in a relative eyeblink. That’s the case when the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) becomes locked in a survival struggle in the body of a patient who’s taking powerful anti-viral drugs.

It’s evolution in fast-forward mode. The virus, replicating billions of times a day, can acquire new mutations at lightning speed: eventually, some of the genetic changes enable the virus to resist even the most powerful drugs. These drug-resistant viruses come to dominate the population and threaten the patient’s life. – From PBS, the Public Brainwashing Service (take the challenge!)

You see… it’s “evolution” in an eyeblink… Because “HIV” (which is no single particle, which is measured by tests that can’t tell if you’re a goat, a mouse, or a starving dude with parasites), apparently doesn’t get ‘better’ when you poison – er, ‘treat’ people with ‘life-saving’ (life-ending) drugs.

Hence, “it” must be “mutating.”

Get it? Because despite taking deadly drugs… right. People get very sick. (Shocking, I know).

Well AIDS industry…we relent. Have at it. ‘Mutate’ it out of existence. Whatever the bleep it takes to stop killing people and branding them sexual lepers all over the impoverished world.

So, for next week, The AIDS industry will take on a new task; stop fighting and embrace that ‘mutation. Mutation is good. Let’s mutate that old AIDS eugenics industry right ‘out of existence.’

But darn it, we at RTB admit to ourselves that we too need some pharma-type money. we can pretend to do crap all day long and lie to Congress about it, too, you know…

AIDS is Real, HIV is Fake

by Liam Scheff

AIDS, as in immune deficiency, is real enough. It certainly can be ‘acquired,’ either through drug abuse, poverty, toxic exposure, or antibiotic overload. It can be congenital – some people are born with broken, weak or deficient immune systems. AIDS is real enough.

HIV, as in “HIV tests,” and the ‘wily retrovirus,’ however, is an invention, or really, a conglomeration or accumulation of separable phenomena – cross-reacting protein tests, budding ‘exosomal’ sub-cellular particles, bits of broken cellular structures – brought together over time, by different researchers at different labs, all believing that this hodge-podge of cellular detritus adds up to one thing (but only in the gay men and African women they like to target for the make-believe ‘HIV test’ rigmarole).

The drugs that come next will knock out any fungus or bacteria that’s growing in you – but it will destroy your blood, intestines and bone marrow too, leaving you lifeless after extended use. It makes the drugs dangerous to take, and hard to quit.

AIDS is real enough. Immune deficiency exists, and has many causes. It’s the idea that this diagnosis has one, and only one cause, that is the greatest medical fiction of our age.

Why The Wart Virus is Not the Cause of Cervical Cancer

RTB: As the Gardisil vaccine continues to maim and kill girls and young women worldwide, Cal Crilly has investigated a plausible and more likely cause of cervical cancer – which occurs not in little girls, but middle-aged and older women. The link – Pharmaceutical hormones fed to women – ie Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) – and  chemcals used in gasoline and sexual lubricants – parabens, and Benzene.

Why The Wart Virus is Not the Cause of Cervical Cancer

by Cal Crilly

Well I watched my mother in law dying horribly from cervical cancer 6 years ago and I’m probably lucky I was politely given a divorce so I didn’t get to see the last year of her demise. It was devastating for my ex.

In the years before getting cervical cancer my mother in law was put on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) to help menopausal symptoms, millions of older women are on this hormone which stimulates cancer growth if it ever happens. And millions more are on the pill which also stimulates cancer growth.

Of course there is a massive propaganda campaign at the moment to sell the Gardasil vaccine to young girls in the false belief that some sort of immunity from the wart virus will save them later in life.

Is that vaccine safe?

  • “As of January 31, 2010, there have been 49 U.S. reports of death among females who have received Gardasil.”
  • Reports of Health Concerns Following HPV Vaccination.
  • Meet the Gardasil Girls
  • NY legislators push Gardasil mandate as more deaths are reported [Link]
  • Another Gardasil HPV vaccine victim [Link]
  • Another Gardasil death?: One irate letter to the NZ ministry of health [Link]
  • Grieving mother blames cancer vaccine [Link]

So are the adverse affects such as immediate death and brain damage worth the risk as compared to possibly? getting cervical cancer later in life?

Also note that there are 100 different strains of wart virus and the HPV vaccine is only for a few of them. And especially when the wart virus may not be the MAIN cause of cervical cancer?

“A vaccine against human papilloma virus 16 (HPV16)— which is the most common type of HPV and accounts for most cases of cervical cancer — has previously been shown to protect against HPV16 infection in women. However, most of the women in these studies were taking oral contraceptives, which regulate menstruation and production of sex hormones.” [Link] Continue reading Why The Wart Virus is Not the Cause of Cervical Cancer

Is the AIDS CD4 T-Cell Test a Measure of Fat?

RTB: We’re pleased to present another research essay by Cal Crilly. Cal has provided some truly groundbreaking work in understanding ‘Why retroviruses appear in autoimmune disease, cancer and Aids,’ and we recommend that you read his entire oeuvre, or body of work here at RTB, to follow his often whimsical journeys into wonderful and remarkable insight.

The AIDS CD4 T-Cell Test: A Measure of Fat?

by Cal Crilly

Well I swap the odd message with a HIV+ lady in Europe when I get to a net cafe every couple of weeks as I don’t know if anyone else does.

In her last couple of messages she said she “was worried about her CD4 count going down as the doctors would then harass her to take antiretrovirals” which in the past made her very sick. She also said that while her CD4 went down she felt better and heather than ever…

So I looked.

I have been an observer of the AIDS story for a good 13 years now, if I wander into a net cafe it’s because I noticed something you need to know.

I may be wrong about these observations but if I don’t mention them then no one else will say it….

So to me it looks like CD4 is mainly a marker for cholesterol and arterial plaque not the immune system. CD4 and CD8 counts goes up with cholesterol and nicotinamide will make cholesterol and CD4 go down because it’s a fat metaboliser. CD4 cells gather at the areas of arterial plaque and tell white blood cells to come and gobble up the cholesterol. Continue reading Is the AIDS CD4 T-Cell Test a Measure of Fat?

Does the NIH Want to Kill All Gay Men (or is it Just Tired of Selling AIDS to the General Public)?

by Liam Scheff

The AIDS industry has been so firmly exposed by the work of whistle-blowers, medical activists, scientists, researchers and journalists, it’s more naked than Lady Godiva after a rude haircut; it’s more nude than the Emperor who wore no clothes on the day he decided to really let it all hang out…

It’s more exposed than… well, you get the point.

But thanks to the terrific work of hundreds of individuals to demand transparency in this rotten paradigm, and research and news websites like RTB, Henry Bauer’s excellent site and book, T.I.G. South Africa, The Perth Group, Rethinking AIDS, NotAIDS, ARAS.ca.ab, and more (add yours in comments, please, if I’ve missed it), the truth about AIDS is becoming well known.

And what’s the truth about AIDS? It is this: AIDS is a multi-factorial, complex toxicological immune problem, or series of problems – that has no single cause, and no single viral cause.

HIV is a construct, mostly mental at this point, of loosely-associated laboratory material, cobbled together in academic papers and models; “it” is really a “many,” as in many proteins, genetic strands and loose material that have been associated, in some people, and only some people, with immune deficiency. “HIV” was once called a ‘tumor virus,’ but that it didn’t cause tumors, it was re-labeled a ‘retrovirus,’ but that it had no stable size, shape or form, it passed into being a “Trojan Exosome” – ie, a variety of protein bubbles manufactured in all human cells under stress.

In other words, the variety of things called HIV are made by you, from you, in you, and are most likely cellular messengers. There is no single, identifiable “HIV,” there are only many “HIVs,” none of which eat, screw or chomp on T-Cells. They’re probably more like emails from cell to cell; or perhaps messages to the immune system. Or articles of epigenetic adjustment or ‘evolution’ within the body.

The mainstream got it wrong from the start. They labeled a loose construction of debris as one important thing. They mislabeled the ‘exosomal’ process as a deadly viral process. They mistook what was important as a messaging system for what they were hoping to find – a deadly viral cause of cancer. When these fragments turned out to cause zero and no cancers, the AIDS true-believers simply changed their theory again. “HIV” (all, any, some and whichever), would “kill T-Cells.” This was their theory. And it has been dead from day one.

And so, the mainstream has moved from telling the world that HIV causes AIDS by “directly” killing T-Cells. When they failed to demonstrate anything resembling that theory, they held tight and said that perhaps T-Cells were being “indirectly affected” through unknown means.

The latest incarnation of AIDS theory offers that “HIV” might actually “stimulate” the immune system! Thereby causing…??

But these rotten children cannot publicly let go of their failed theory – or they’ll pay with their careers. And so, they continue to “first do harm,” by drugging all “HIV positives” to death over time, and often quickly.

AIDS, Inc: “Making People Sick is Our Business”

The AIDS lobby and pharma mafia that do their public and very dirty work have driven hundreds of thousands to early graves by drugging them mercilessly with the world’s most toxic ‘Black Box’ prescription drugs. While those who sought treatment through detoxification, a la the Pauling method, updated and improved by Matthias Rath, have been vilified, cursed, and literally wished dead by the very AIDS lobbyists who pin sacred ‘red ribbons’ on everything they do and touch – and sell. But their real interest in AIDS is the following:

“Every death is a victory; every illness ‘proof’ of their cause.”

Nevertheless, they’ve been whittled down from their mount, by public exposure. The recent documentary “House of Numbers” put in living color, at 24 frames per second, the AIDS industry in their own words. And it was a terrible blow for the masters of deceit at the NIH, such as is presided over by ‘Capo’ Anthony Fauci.

And so, what to do, what to do?

They’ve got to find a way to grind it to a halt. And so they are.

The news is now this: “HIV” is preventable, if only gay men will self-suicide all the days of their lives. That is, they must pre-drug with AIDS drugs. Yes, the same deadly “Black Box” drugs will now be taken by perfectly healthy (but deeply paranoid) young gay men. And “AIDS” will be over.

Here is how it reads at the BBC, and all agencies that parrot the propaganda from the NIH machine:

Drug ‘can greatly reduce risk of HIV infection’

Truvada, which is made California-based Gilead Sciences, combines two antiretroviral drugs.

* HIV epidemic ‘halted’, says UN
* Molecule structure hope for HIV

A drug used to treat HIV-positive patients may offer gay and bisexual men some protection against contracting the virus, the authors of a new study say.

What are the drugs? What are the effects? What is “some protection?” Against what, precisely? Testing HIV positive? But HIV tests come up positive for any and every illness. Will this stop “AIDS?” No, real “AIDS” – as in serious toxicological and environmental immune deficiency – will rage on, and Western nations will ignore it.

You can see an early analysis of the AIDS industry’s new move in this paper I researched and wrote a few years ago. It tells the rationale for drugging all neurotic and willing young gay men.

“Does the New York Times Want to Kill Gay Men?” GNN 2006

Here is how they proved their theory that all gay men should be drugged: The good laboratory scientists shoved some laboratory proteins up the rear ends of some macaque monkeys.

Voila.

What does all of it mean? It means that the mainstream is looking for a way out of the big stinking tent they’ve erected. They want to close down the house of death and pain that they’ve locked populations into for three decades. And they need to wave a magic wand to make the population think that there was a real, rational, ‘scientific’ reason that it ended.

Rather than revealing what has happened – the exposure of a fraud – they want to sell one more product.

So, are you buying?

The Politics of HIV – “Sticks and Stones”

RTB: The OMSJ outlines the politics of HIV, the pharma hit squads, and their tactics. A must read, here’s an excerpt from “Sticks and Stones”:

Judas Horses

For hundreds of years, cowboys have trained horses to lead wild herds into captivity.  Like the helicopter-cowboys that terrorize roaming herds, the drug industry uses the media and Judas horses to drive gullible Americans toward their dangerous drugs and meaningless tests.

Arguably, the industry’s most famous pony is basketball great Earvin “Magic” Johnson, whose early retirement created an unprecedented explosion of calls to AIDS hotlines and clinics.  Although reportedly cured by 1997, Magic has earned millions by pushing HIV tests and drugs in black communities.  In 2006, Magic received $60 million from Abbott Labs alone.

While Magic pushes pills in black communities, Peter Staley remains the industry’s undisputed prima donna in the gay community.  Shortly after researchers suggested that junkies (1988) and homosexuals (1992) could be used to educate the public about AIDS, the NIH, CDC and drug companies found in Staley a former bond trader who was not only a gay meth addict, but also had the skills to pitch deadly drugs (It was like being drunk or high.  Actually, I kind of liked it) while organizing a homosexual army that the drug industry could use to push drugs under the pretext of human rights.

This wasn’t a new tactic.

Drug Sales as a Human Right


Larry Kramer

Six years after the first group of promiscuous gay men began to appear in hospitals in 1981, Reagan Administration officials were still grappling with unanswered questions about HIV.  At the same time, playwright Larry Kramer and 300 other gay activists (including Staley) descended upon the FDA to demand relaxed regulations, low pricing and AZT (Retrovir).

When President Reagan asked about the controversy, then-HHS Secretary Otis Bowen MD warned that AZT “is very toxic and destroys blood cells and organs.”  Ten weeks later, NIH virologist Samuel Broder declared that AZT “reduces the occurrence of life-threatening opportunistic infections”.  (What Broder didn’t disclose was that, as the inventor of AZT, he could made millions from the drug.)  After weeks of withering accusations that homophobes were withholding lifesaving drugs from dying gay men, the White House relented, which led to the small spike (.00015%) in mortality.  Coincidentally, mortality tapered in 1996 when they lowered the dosage.

Staley’s Army

Gay activism has been tied to HIV from the beginning.  When the AIDS hysteria of 1983 fizzled to mortality levels of .0076% in 1986, CDC officials began to worry that taxpayers wouldn’t fund treatment for a small number of sick men.  Drug makers needed activists to push drugs while the CDC needed sick men.  To make that happen, drug companies sponsored dance parties where thousands of men were recruited in baptisms of depravity:

The NIH reported:

In addition to smoking and snorting (meth)… some administer the drug anally.  This type of administration of the drug along with unprotected “marathon sex” with numerous partners can damage the rectal lining and increase the likelihood of HIV and other STI transmission.


Peter Staley

The NIH funds (directly and indirectly) propaganda sources like POZ, The Body and organizations like TAG and websites like AIDSMeds – both of which were founded by charismatic gay meth-addict Peter Staley.  Staley’s handlers also used him to establish gay activist groups like TAG, AFFA and Act Up.  In 2009, Staley asked for 100,000 more activists to join his army.

Read the article at OMSJ.org

AIDS Eugenics Industry’s Woman of the Year

by Liam Scheff

The AIDS Industry now wants to own all of women’s bodies; not only by drugging them before, during and after pregnancy, but by turning them into pill dispensers for their new-borns:

In order to reduce the transmission of HIV from mother to baby during breastfeeding, scientists are developing a low-cost, modified nipple shield which dispenses antiviral compounds. [link]

Read about the wondrous project, and other Eugenic works, at: http://justmilk.org/ as well as the UN population fund.

Oh, did anybody mention that HIV tests (which are used to validate the notion of “transmission”) come up positive for everything, and nothing? Including pregnancy?

Or that these drugs deform, distress and kill the grown men and women who take them?

Well, they already cut children’s stomachs open to take the drugs…I suppose it’s just a logical progression…

Modified pill-dispensing nipple-shields. Fraudulent tests. Population control and management – all for a good, honorable cause…

Gosh, I wonder what ideas they have in store for us, if we’d only let them?

What Is AIDS?

RTB: Please read and pass along Jonathan Campbell’s excellent new historical review of immune deficiency and AIDS. Here’s an excerpt:

What is AIDS?

by Jonathan Campbell (and excerpt)

AIDS stands for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. This is not a “disease” in itself. It’s the inability to fight off disease vectors and toxins. There are bacteria, funguses (molds), and chemical toxins all around us in the air, in our food and water, and in our contact with others. People who have a strong immune system are able to deal with this; the immune system has numerous ways to stop these invaders from causing disease. People with weak immunity get ill all the time, and need constant antibiotic therapy to keep them from dying. We know that adequate nutrition and sufficient ascorbate – vitamin C – is needed for immune health.

History is filled with stories of deadly diseases, from the deaths of individual young people to the massive plagues of Europe. Why would this happen, sometimes even in cases where people seemed to have sufficient food? Why did some people survive, even though they must have been exposed to the same disease vectors? There are stories about Nostradamus, whose “rose pills” (containing ascorbate) apparently saved hundreds of people from the plague. For those that died, their immune systems were not up to the challenge of crowded living conditions, poor sanitation, contaminated water, and lots of disease vectors all around. (Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like conditions in many parts in Africa today?).

The answer is provided by the works of Albert Szent-Györgyi in 1930, Fred Klenner in 1949 and especially Irwin Stone in 1979. Albert Szent-Györgyi was the first to identify and isolate ascorbate (vitamin C) and identify it as essential to immune health and to recognize that humans and guinea pigs could not synthesize it internally. Klenner provided the first hint of using it for treatment of serious disease: he discovered that polio could be effectively treated – in fact cured – by intravenous ascorbate (vitamin C); he was probably the first physician to use intravenous ascorbate to fight disease. But it was Stone who clearly identified the medical-social problem in his groundbreaking work “Eight Decades of Scurvy.” He discovered that the amount of ascorbate consumed by most humans was insufficient to maintain our immune systems: the entirety of humanity was in a state of subclinical scurvy. Continue reading What Is AIDS?

The HIV Innocence Project – Spread the Word

RTB: An important update from the OMSJ

If you have been charged with an HIV-related crime or civil action – or you represent someone in such action, contact OMSJ immediately.

  • In 2008, a Texas court sentenced Willie Campbell to 35 years in prison for spitting at a police officer.
  • A year later, Philippe Padieu faced five to 99 years for having sex with several women. He lucked out with a 25-year sentence.
  • In December 2009, an Arkansas Court sentenced Christopher Gray (18) to 15 years in prison.

These men were sentenced not because they have deadly infectious diseases but because they did not understand how to defend themselves against junk science.

HIV tests do not detect HIV. AIDS drugs cause cancer and kill. Many HIV medications contain drugs like Sustiva (Efavirenz), an undisclosed benzodiazepine (BZD) analogue that compromises immune function after ONE DOSE and can produce life-long psychological and physical injuries.
(More information about HIV drugs and the diseases they cause is found here.)
Continue reading The HIV Innocence Project – Spread the Word

Robert Scott Bell on Obama-care and Human Guinea Pigs

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Human experimentation – Robert Scott Bell keeps his eagle eyes on big pharma…

Pharmaceutical Solutions To AIDS Are Not Enough

by Jonathan Barnett

A recent phone conversation with a friend is helping me to continue to refine what I want to focus on as an AIDS dissident activist. In a passionate outburst that revealed a new side of his character, he blurted out his dismay that our society in general and our gay community in particular seems to be willing to settle for a solution to AIDS that relies exclusively on drugs from the pharmaceutical industry.

It is no secret that despite a massive marketing campaign promoting improved tolerance for and reduced adverse reactions from new drugs and dosages, sometimes researchers buck the marketing department with the alarming reality that today’s AIDS drugs still cause serious health problems, including death.

For example, one such study was recently presented at the 50th Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy (ICAAC).

Before even getting to the study, observe that the name of the conference combines the terms: “antimicrobial agents” and “chemotherapy”. AIDS drug promoters bristle whenever someone compares ARVs (anti-retrovirals) to chemotherapy, yet apparently this particular conference has no difficulty making the same association.

Back to the study report that caught my eye, “Bone Loss Evident in Nearly Half of HIV-Positive Patients on Antiretroviral Therapy”, by Alice Goodman of Medscape Medical News. Kudos to the headline writer for making it explicitly clear that the study participants were on ARVs. Too often the headings of reports like this suggest findings are specific to those with an HIV-positive diagnosis alone, glossing over the fact that most study participants are taking the drug cocktails. Continue reading Pharmaceutical Solutions To AIDS Are Not Enough

A Shooting Gallery and an Hour Glass – Part Two

RTB is presents part two from a long-term observer and participant in the AIDS war, who has written an explorative, insightful essay in two parts for ReduceTheBurden.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

A Shooting Gallery and an Hour-Glass Part Two
One HIV Skeptics Continuing Journey

By William A.
for RTB

The Hour-Glass

Over the years, I began to notice the feeling that AIDS dissidents–particularly those with an ‘HIV’ diagnosis aimed at their head–seem almost shackled invisibly together… joined like some godforsaken chain-gang on a remote, dusty highway: When one of us stumbles, we all seem to lose our footing. When one of us falls we all feel vertigo. Someone else’s illness can beckon almost unconsciously, dancing off in the distance like a dark mirage…promising…shimmering…waiting. We seem to obsess about the health of other dissidents, revealing, in our often slightly mad speculation about what might be going on, this invisible connection to each others’ wellness. Or illness. An umbilical cord of wary hope. Or suppressed despair. As though someone else’s ability to survive the rain of death and hopelessness falling on us every day can make it more likely that we will defy the odds ourselves. Like anyone would, we find strength in numbers.

Nothing revealed this more powerfully to me than Christine Maggiore’s death. All these years she had soldiered on through a sea of hatred and vitriol, somehow not going completely mad from the intense scrutiny from the AIDS machine. Yet equally intense, if not more, was the almost unconscious scrutiny of many dissidents. We often live immersed in fear: this diagnosis is like being cast out into a sea of anxiety, a sea that can seem to extend beyond the horizon and it swallows people whole. Though many of us find ways to subdue the monstrous anxiety, I did notice how often others around me would ‘point’, somewhat nervously, to Christine as evidence that one could stay healthy, their trembling finger betraying the fear they felt that it was all somehow going to go pear-shaped anyway. There was a watchfulness about it. A kind of expectant waiting.

Unconsciously, many of us seemed to keep looking at her and then ‘looking at our watches’. I often wondered if she felt pressure to be the exception, or if she felt the many quiet, lonely hands clinging to her for reassurance and hope. I can’t see how it wouldn’t have been an enormous burden, however unintended it may have been by those who so understandably needed some signal, some sign of hope in a world awash with the expectation of early death that comes with this diagnosis.

I can’t help but be reminded of that, creepy scene in The Wizard of Oz, where the Wicked Witch of the West traps Dorothy in the tower-room and gingerly turns the Hour-Glass over and places it on the table, starting it flowing and saying evilly:

“Do you see that?  That’s how much longer you’ve got to be alive!  And it isn’t long, my pretty!  It isn’t long!” Continue reading A Shooting Gallery and an Hour Glass – Part Two